Curse

Loralai · Nov 11, 2005, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbca

I find it really funnny how many people have cried out that monsters running from AOE is a bad thing. If they throw an AOE skill onto you, what do you do? You get out from under it! Now why shouldnt the computer have the potential to be as inteligent as you? And thats what this all really comes down to. Some people who play this game somply look for a build of the net, run it blindly and hope for the best. Basically this makes them that much less effective as players because they dont know how their skills mix. The problem with this update is that it gizes the AI skill about the same as a person who doesnt know their skills. By this i mean that the AI can now randomly spam whatever skills they have and run from AOE. More experienced players will look at this and say "big deal. I cant bring that super AOE fire ele any more" and they will mix some earth or water skills in there. That really is a shame. Shame on anet for making people THINK about their skill set.

Oh, and just so you know, AOE still works, you just got to give them a reason to stay in the damage zone

I again throw myself into the flames and reiterate that my main problem is NOT my lack of skill to be able to create a new build to work around this update. My problem is with the continual revamping of the basic workings of the game. Maybe it's just me, maybe my job and time limitations make it more difficult for me to sit and contemplate and test new builds every time Anet decides to completely alter the basic skills I was given from the start. Maybe I would just like for once, to come home and sit down and play or farm, or whatever I feel like doing on that particular day with whatever character I choose, without wondering what they've changed now.

My basic argument is that the essential foundation of a game needs to stay that way. If they were not happy with the skills, recharge times, effects, AI, etc.. they should have made those changes before even releasing the game. Just my opinion though.

yslee · Nov 11, 2005, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewSaber

The AI has gone from one flawed extreme to the other.

Agreed. At least when they were standing there you could say they were extremely dedicated monsters hellbent on killing you.. now they're worse than wimps! Like I (and others have mentioned) making them move for only DOT spells, and giving them a delay/random percentage chance of moving is a better idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

How fun is it? Sort of like taking candy from a baby, isn't it? I never wanted to feel sorry for my enemies; I just wanted to feel powerful when I smited them. So if the monster enemies are actually more on par with a real player, isn't that a good thing? Doesn't that make accomplishments more meaningful?

It's a game, Gaile. I play it to be entertained, not to work hard at it. Maybe the kids here have nothing beyond homework (which I always found boring) but I think most of us with jobs would want to relax after work with a good blast out with friends in the PvE game. If they want something more demanding there is always PvP, yes? Why make both of them the same?

Also, accomplishments are only meaningful if they're special. Having to chase 48357813753 mobs while you complete the game is hardly special; in fact it's exhausting and downright annoying. Have you guys playtested this after programming for a full day, then attempt to complete a mission in an hour or two?

Let me tell a tale about realism here. There was this strategy game, which promised to be highly realistic and claimed to simulate empires extremely well. It was meant to be detailed, and had a lot of anticipation building up.. the game was then released, and.. well, fell flat.

The game was Master of Orion 3.

It was the most BORING game I ever played. Why? Because the realism got to the point it felt like WORK (some of the information screens reminded me of the Excel spreadsheets I work on even), and frankly if I wanted work I'd go do some more work and get more real money rather than virtual money.

I play a game to be entertained. The balance between frustration and fun has been tipped towards frustration too much this time. I don't want to "work" that hard in an activity that's supposed to be giving me entertainment!

To me this reeks of bad strategy. Wasn't this game meant to attract casual players as well? Wasn't this game meant to have balanced classes such that you could do well no matter what class you take? Whatever happened to catering to a large population and variety of gamers? We now have a PvE game that plays like bad PvP (since even in PvP humans don't run away like that). Why should a class of spells be made so useless just like that?

There are many gamers in Guild Wars, Gaile. Not just the hardcore PvPers, or the PvEr who have played the game to death. There are casual gamers who want to enjoy the idea of a MMO in a more social atmosphere. There are RPers who like the instanced modes which gives them the freedom to practice their craft without getting disturbed by gankers. There are long-time CRPGers who want to play this game cooperatively with friends every now and then, but can't play every single day for 5 hours because of other committments.

Has ANet decided that pandering to the hardcore crowd is the way to go? Because if that is the viable business strategy your accountants have worked out, please let me know. I'd rather leave now than being led along in a game that doesn't cater for my style of playing. Thank you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by id0l

Who are YOU to tell me how to play my character?

Indeed. This is getting very irksome!

coolsti · Nov 11, 2005, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by id0l

Oh, bring my ranger to snare everything in sight, you say. I think not, I don't play a ranger to snare, I play her to deal massive damage quickly. Who are YOU to tell me how to play my character? I sure as hell am NOT bringing crippling shot on my ranger just to keep them in a damned AoE for God's sake.

Gosh you must be one of those players that I hope are so enraged by this that you just go away and stop playing GW ;-)

Play a ranger to do massive damage quickly? Huh? Yes a ranger can do that, but a ranger is good for so so so much more! If you are one of those players that doesn't realize that, and never uses some of those more interesting ranger skills, then you must be a very boring player to play with.

Not use cripping shot? Why not? Try it, and see how effective it works with these new rules. You might actually find it fun! Try something new for a change instead of complaining!

BTW do you every use throw dirt to blind the enemy that your warriors are tanking? That is an example of a very helpful non-damaging ranger skill, because the blinding lasts a reasonable amount of time.

quickmonty · Nov 11, 2005, 01:34 PM // 13:34

This is a great advertisement for chapter 2. I was eagerly awaiting it but now I'll spend that money on some other game. Anet really screwed up big time!

For those of you that want realisim ...... how "real" is it to be able to stuff FIVE sledge hammers in a belt pouch?? Just my opinion.

Schorny · Nov 11, 2005, 01:36 PM // 13:36

I like the update.

I hope the extreme fear of monster from fireballs get fixed soon - but moving out of AoE was really needed.

If you have participated in farm groups in SF, you'll know how boring a fight was. Now fgihts in PvE are much more interesting

You know need to think about your Build and people need to realize that direct damage is not the only thing a char can do...

It is always difficult for some players to adapt, but I think this update is really worth it

id0l · Nov 11, 2005, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by obastable

I'd just like to add, to those who are waving the flag of realism around, that this is a game and not reality. Realism only holds a standard in a fantasy game so long as it doesn't interfere with mass playability and customer enjoyment.

If you wanted realism, you wouldn't be playing a fantasy game.

There is a big difference between "realism" and "believability". It is not impossible to make the game mechanics function in a way that is believable without being realistic.

I find it completely believable that some things are too stupid to know when to run away, and others too enraged to consider the possibility.

I find nothing believable in everything running like a chicken with its head cut off when it gets hit with one specific type of damage, yet stands still and fights to its dying breath if hit with another.

I find it remarkably unbelievable that every mobile in the entire game suddenly developed an innate ability to sense AoE and decide it was a good thing to run from, yet has not developed the ability to sense that being hit with a sharp pointy object should warrant the same response.

You said it...

Makkert · Nov 11, 2005, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by yslee

HEAVILY SNIPPED ~makk
It's a game, Gaile. I play it to be entertained, not to work hard at it. Maybe the kids here have nothing beyond homework (which I always found boring) but I think most of us with jobs would want to relax after work with a good blast out with friends in the PvE game. If they want something more demanding there is always PvP, yes? Why make both of them the same?

Let me tell a tale about realism here. There was this strategy game, which promised to be highly realistic and claimed to simulate empires extremely well. It was meant to be detailed, and had a lot of anticipation building up.. the game was then released, and.. well, fell flat.

The game was Master of Orion 3.

It was the most BORING game I ever played. Why? Because the realism got to the point it felt like WORK (some of the information screens reminded me of the Excel spreadsheets I work on even), and frankly if I wanted work I'd go do some more work and get more real money rather than virtual money.

I play a game to be entertained. T

You describe one reason that I can sympathize with why the patch was bad.
However have no fear that your social PvE experience is long term disrupted.
I dare to make another statement:
Within 1,5 week from now there will be a build that easily manages the current PvE, much like echo nuking worked to now.

And then you can quietly enjoy PvE again, with your character (maybe some skill adjustments, I'm fair at that).

greetings,
makkert

Markus Soother · Nov 11, 2005, 01:43 PM // 13:43

I've got a problem with just how invasive this update is. I haven't been playing GW since the beta, I'm not super rich, I'm no full time farmer, and I would consider myself to generally be an 'average' player that was pretty thoroughly hooked on the PvE experience of the game. I farm sometimes, but never very much or for very long. I do a bit of running, but only when I'm in the mood. I routinely delete and create one of my character slots to keep trying out new builds and to play through the game again and in a different way. I'm just an average Joe Slob that enjoyed the game intensely, as it was

There wasn't anything broken about the game play before. It might've been hard for some of the lesser respected professions to get into parties, but that really is that party's loss. I never have more success in a mission then when a smart mesmer and a necro are along with us. Changing the way AoE impacts the AI doesn't change that at all. So long as there are AI enemies at all there will be 'popular' builds and nerf'ing fire magic will just cause a surge in another specific build.

The part of the AI update that bothers me the most is just how much more annoyingly stupid those bots are now. I realize that they're bots and that annoyingly stupid goes without saying, but this AI change represents such a large and fundamental (and as I see it, also negative) change to how the PvE game play works that I really resent it. I don't want wishy-washy enemies to fight. I don't feel that it makes sense in any way for them to run around like chickens with their heads cut off just because someone switch from bombarding them with individual spells/skills to an AoE spell. It makes no sense, damage is damage. If the enemy AI ever ran from a fight that it wasn't going to win (say a level 20 bum rushing piken square), then I could possibly see how it would be worth it to make the AI also move out of the way of an AoE spell. But as it is, they don't move to continue attacking, they just run away (and usually decide to run right back into that AoE just a second later.)

I'm all for busting the gold sellers and for helping to fight inflation in the economy in general, but if the AI update (in respect to AoE) was targeted at helping to keep those two factors in check then it missed the mark by far. Gold sellers aren't going to be deterred by a minor AI change and neither are the serious farmers. The wheel didn't need to be reinvented and the people who are going to suffer the most are the casual gamers who genuinely enjoyed the game as it was. I agree fully with an earlier poster who said this update should've been made before the release or not at all.

Trance Addict · Nov 11, 2005, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Hurray. Now I'll actually have to use something else rather than just

Arcane Echo > Meteor Shower > Glyph of E > Meteor Shower > Fire Storm > Searing Heat > Get BiP'd > Repeat.

Unbelievable how some people think that giving the simplistic AI a single decent thing is very bad, pathetic to see people even contemplating quitting the game just for that.

GJ on the update. Next up should be some Henchie AI buffing like Lina removing conditions, the Mesmer removing Hexes and so on.

Former Ruling · Nov 11, 2005, 01:46 PM // 13:46

Alot of the people like it after actually trying some of this stuff.

Monks rejoicing because they can Scatter aggro off them just by setting a SoW or something similar.

Farmers actually like it once they try because if they keep scattering and coming back...They arent attacking you...It kind of makes it easier to use a monk to farm wtihout doing specail 55HP versions and such - cause less attacking going on. Slower..but easier.

Sekkira · Nov 11, 2005, 01:49 PM // 13:49

If it's not fixed within the week, I'll be starting up my ranger again. As for the ectos and shards meant for the ele, that's still undecided.

lg5000 · Nov 11, 2005, 01:51 PM // 13:51

YAY, after testing this new update I've come to the conclusion that all casters now MUST be tanks, unless NO-ONE does aoe damage.

I prefer playing casters, but yeah.. now having to add skills to be able to tank, at least to some exend due to an aoe is just stupid.

And while I know that ele's got nerved big time, thanks heaps for also nerving mesmers further! Cry of Frustration; chaos storm; Energy Surge... they're now all usless unless everyone in the group has tanking capability.

Why do I get the feeling this is to make sure people play primarily pvp?

id0l · Nov 11, 2005, 01:52 PM // 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolsti

Gosh you must be one of those players that I hope are so enraged by this that you just go away and stop playing GW ;-)

Play a ranger to do massive damage quickly? Huh? Yes a ranger can do that, but a ranger is good for so so so much more! If you are one of those players that doesn't realize that, and never uses some of those more interesting ranger skills, then you must be a very boring player to play with.

Not use cripping shot? Why not? Try it, and see how effective it works with these new rules. You might actually find it fun! Try something new for a change instead of complaining!

BTW do you every use throw dirt to blind the enemy that your warriors are tanking? That is an example of a very helpful non-damaging ranger skill, because the blinding lasts a reasonable amount of time.

Just another example of someone trying to tell me how to play my character. Call me boring or whatever you want, just because I don't want to use the skillset that YOU deem interesting and "good." I can play interrupter, I can play DoT, I can play many more things than damage ranger. Think I have not tried crippling shot? Think again. I have used all the ranger skills, believe it or not. So there is nothing new for me to try. Except possibly a 100% beastmaster build. I PvP often so of course I use throw dirt, etc.; again, I don't need advice nor recommendation when it comes to what skills I should be using. I bring what I want and what I see fit for the area I will be fighting in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolsti

Gosh you must be one of those players that I hope are so enraged by this that you just go away and stop playing GW ;-)

Don't count on me being a quitter. 1,492 hours in 6 months, so far...beaten the game with over 10 characters. And by the way, if you hope that everyone that is enraged by this update up and quits, you're not going to have many people to play with anymore. Just a little FYI.

Wilheim Eversmann · Nov 11, 2005, 01:55 PM // 13:55

i think this update is nothing about realism....the monsters are just running around and around, it isn't fun. this is a waste of time....they just keep running, its a chaos. i think no one want to play a game which use most of the time to chase the running monsters (especially warrior). some of the missions already take a long time to finish, i don't want to spend more time in chasing the foes.

Loralai · Nov 11, 2005, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Quote:

No criticism for farmers, not at all. But in a game built on strategy and teamwork, like Guild Wars, it simply doesn't seem to me that it's reasonable to ask to play the highest end content as a solo player.

Sorry Gaile, but chances are the goal of eliminating soloists most likely has not been accomplished. This is more detrimental to those who group.

Quote:

In the end, though, my opinions aside, we tested these changes for some time and the consensus was that they were reasonable and fair. We are most definitely listening to all your feedback and will certainly be willing to consider future changes in the interest of game improvement

Reasonable and fair in my opinion would have been a warning on the box letting me know that game content could be completely revamped or altered at any time. However, thankfully, there is some fairness in letting me know now, before the release of Chapter 2. I know better now.

Former Ruling · Nov 11, 2005, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Can I just comment that this kind of reaction happens everytime Runescape updates..It was funny when i was playing that.

They could add a new weapon..500 people threaten to quit cause weapon isnt the l33t'est weapon EVAR. They could add a new quest..and 1,000 people will say they'll quit because the quest isnt easy enough/hard enough/big enough/good enough reward/etc. And so on and so on...

So this is nothing lol.

Kabale · Nov 11, 2005, 01:59 PM // 13:59

Cry of frustration isn't nerfed lol.

Elistan Theocrat · Nov 11, 2005, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Omg The Sky Is Falling The Sky Is Falling!!!

Makkert · Nov 11, 2005, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loralai

Sorry Gaile, but chances are the goal of eliminating soloists most likely has not been accomplished. This is more detrimental to those who group.

Most likely not, it may slow them probably.
If you are correct that it hurts grouping more, then it will be changed again most likely.

All take a deep breath. So much emotion flying around this thread...

Faith In Madness · Nov 11, 2005, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Some people are acting like anyone that doesnt like the update is an '0mg N00bzorz wtf' But like most of us state,We are casual gamers,We accually dont play guildswars 24-7(OMG)